Discussions on Race, Gender and Sexuality
Here is a mapping of the conversations students had on the discussion board regarding the intersection of race, gender and sexuality. Portrait of a Puerto Rican
Woman Film - John 13:11:45 2/18/99 (8)
Re:
Portrait of a Puerto Rican Woman Film - Nancy 13:28:54 2/25/99 (0)
Re:
Portrait of a Puerto Rican Woman Film - Eduardo 18:57:28 2/24/99 (2)
Re: Re: Portrait of a Puerto Rican Woman Film - Sandra
22:36:16 2/25/99 (1)
Re: Re: Re: Portrait of a Puerto Rican Woman Film - Justin
00:00:05 2/26/99 (0)
For
AOL users...addt'l info on the film and woman - Eduardo 02:32:38 2/23/99
(0)
Cherrie Moraga - Elizabeth 20:08:39
2/23/99 (1)
Re:
Cherrie Moraga - John 22:37:28 2/23/99 (0)
More on Chican(o) Queerness & Feminism
- Sandra 22:17:27 2/25/99 (1)
Re:
More on Chican(o) Queerness & Feminism - Nicole 14:47:47 2/28/99
(0)
The Silent Asian American
- Emily 09:18:36 2/27/99 (3)
Re:
The Silent Asian American - D 20:42:23 3/10/99 (1)
Re: Re: The Silent Asian American - anon 01:33:11 3/11/99
(1)
Re: Re: Re: The Silent Asian American - Yuya 01:48:37
3/17/99 (0)
In response to Emily's message
- Jennie 13:55:26 3/03/99 (0)
Postings....
Posted by John on February 18, 1999
at 13:11:45:
How about some responses to the film shown on 2/18? What did the film say to you about the issue of identity? See the discussion questions I posed in lec6b.
Follow Ups:
Re: Portrait of a Puerto
Rican Woman Film Nancy 13:28:54 2/25/99 (0)
Re: Portrait of a Puerto
Rican Woman Film Eduardo 18:57:28 2/24/99 (2)
Re:
Re: Portrait of a Puerto Rican Woman Film Sandra 22:36:16 2/25/99 (1)
Re: Re: Re: Portrait of a Puerto Rican Woman Film Justin
00:00:05 2/26/99 (0)
For AOL users...addt'l
info on the film and woman Eduardo 02:32:38 2/23/99 (0)
Posted by Nancy on February 25, 1999 at 13:28:54:
In Reply to: Portrait of a Puerto Rican Woman Film posted by John on February 18, 1999 at 13:11:45:
I feel that the movie addresses an important issue about how queer minorities
experience a "double-oppression." Also how gay
minortiy "women" suffer in a sense from being oppressed because of
their gender, race, sexuality, and class (if they are poor,
which is the case for many minorties). I feel these issues cannot be
dealt with independently, and must be dealt with together. It
seems that we have come back again (or have gone in a full circle)
about how the issue of sexuality has been dealt with
historically and how it is being dealt with today. These issues need
to be dealt with together. Without unity divisions will form
and the possibility for political or social reform on sexuality will
not be possible.
Posted by Eduardo on February 24, 1999 at 18:57:28:
In Reply to: Portrait of a Puerto Rican Woman Film posted by John on February 18, 1999 at 13:11:45:
One very interesting point that one of the people in the film made was the fact that, especially in the Latino community, being a lesbian is seen as ridiculous and unheard of. She gave a great explanation. In that community, women are seen as being sexual only in the context of pleasing a man, in relation to a penis. Thus it would follow that two women making love would elicit the question or attitude, "Dos mujeres...que harian?" or "Two women...what would they do?" The film maker responds to this potential attitude with "[What a] lack of imagination". I think this is a very important factor in the plight of the lesbian Latina. She is not only being seen as deviant and unnatural because she loves other women but also because she loves her sexuality (homo or heterosexual). She accepts herself as a sexual being. While most others supress their feelings and desires for the sake of "appropriateness," being a proper "lady" or "miss."
It was a strong scene, that of her confrontation with her father. It seems to me, in keeping with my previous contention, that her father was disgusted at her for being sexual not just for being homosexual. His derogatory remarks refered to her having sex period, rather than her having sex with another woman. In addition, I thought about how her father would feel if she had confessed to him that she was sleeping with a man. Would his attitude be much different? Would he be pleased because she was keeping with what is natural? Probably not. I think that in order for Latinas to gain respect and acknowledgement in the Latino/a community there must first be a recognition and acceptance of women as sexual beings.
Comments and criticisms welcome.
Thanks for listening.
Yur classmate,
Eduardo
Posted by Sandra on February 25, 1999 at 22:36:16:
In Reply to: Re: Portrait of a Puerto Rican Woman Film posted by Eduardo on February 24, 1999 at 18:57:28:
Eduardo-
I think you make very many logical and cohesive arguements in your statement.
The only thing I have trouble with it when you
said that her father would have treated her the same way even if it
was a man she was with. These days, even in the largely
Catholic Latino community, I think that premarital, heterosexual activity
is (barely) tolerated by the community. It is something
that has become a very commonplace occurance in our families. I do
think the fact that she came out as a sexual queer being,
and not only a sexual being, had a lot to do on her being forced to
leave her family. If they had found out she was sleeping with
a man prior to marriage, they might have insisted that she marry him
or enforced some sort of severe(probably religious based)
punishment upon her. Her father would be extremely angry and upset
at her, but over time, this would be forgotten becuase she
could eventually redeem herself, say by being the ideal wife or mother.
She would also have the reputation of being the family
"puta"(whore), but she could still remain a productive, contributing
member of her family. I think the fact that Claudia came out
as a lesbian was the reason that she was treated the way she was.
Follow Ups:
Re: Re: Re: Portrait of
a Puerto Rican Woman Film Justin 00:00:05 2/26/99 (0)
Posted by Justin on February 26, 1999 at 00:00:05:
In Reply to: Re: Re: Portrait of a Puerto Rican Woman Film posted by Sandra on February 25, 1999 at 22:36:16:
This film.....
I agree that her sexualization played a part in her father's rejection
of her and that her lesbianism made it worse. However, what
I found interesting was that among her family, she was discriminated
against because she was a sexually active lesbian and in
her work she was discriminated against because she was a political
non-erotic Chicana artist and in her personal life, she stayed
away from her girlfriends Chicana politics and from lesbian activism.
It appears as though in the art world, men are prized over
women and in the gay art world, sex sells so male sexuality is prized
and Chicana political expressions of sexuality by a female
are marginalized. In her family, men are privileged as seen by how
everybody cowed to her father when he kicked her out and
her sexuality, especially her lesbianism was marginalized. Finally,
in her personal life, she was inactive politically in the queer
world and in the Chicano/a world and she simply seemed to want to be
a woman loving a woman, the only thing that was
marginalized in both work and family. I hope that this makes sense
and I invite others comments on this.
Do others out there queers and non queers, whites and nonwhites males
and females have multiple identity conflicts. I would
personally love to hear from a straight white male to see if he has
experienced anything like this
–Justin
Posted by Eduardo on February 23, 1999 at 02:32:38:
In Reply to: Portrait of a Puerto Rican Woman Film posted by John on February 18, 1999 at 13:11:45:
If you are using AOL..there is a summary and description of the film
and its relevance in the AOL: Gay/Lesbian Latino section.
To get to it:
Go to Channels,
Lifestyles,
Gay/Lesbian dept,
Gay/Lesbian Communities Feature,
Latino,
look for "Brincando el Charco"
Hope it can help.
See ya
Posted by Elizabeth on February 23, 1999 at 20:08:39:
I remember reading some of Cherrie Moraga's work in the past. Can someone
refresh my memory and let me know what she
has written? Thanks.
Follow Ups:
Re: Cherrie Moraga John
22:37:28 2/23/99 (0)
Posted byJohn on February 23, 1999 at 22:37:28:
In Reply to: Cherrie Moraga posted by Elizabeth on February 23, 1999 at 20:08:39:
Waiting in the Wings: Portrait of a Queer Motherhood, 1997; Heroes &
Saints and Other Plays, 1994; The Last Generation
(poetry, fiction and non-fiction), 1993; Giving Up the Ghost (play),
1986; Loving in the War Years/Lo Que Nunca Paso Por
Sus Labios (poetry, fiction and on fiction). Many of you may have read
her pathbreaking, co-edited anthology, The Bridge
Called My Back: Writings by Radical Women of Color, 1981/83. We'll
be passing out an example of her writing that relates
well to some of the themes of our class.
Posted by Sandra on February 25, 1999 at 22:17:27:
I know we've been on this topic for about a week know, but here we go again...
I was very moved after hearing Cherrie Moraga speak today. Words cannot express the pride I feel in seeing a sister be happy in her life- as a Chicana, as a woman AND and a lesbian.
I know that this issue of queers of color might not seem like something
that so many of us should be reacting to, but unless you've seen it or
experienced it, it is diffuclt to know. As a Chicana, I know how important
family and the community are for us.
Many of us being new immigrants, sometimes kinship ties or social networks
are the only thing that gets us through life's daily struggles. The family
is not something that we are merely a part of, but rather something that
is a part of us. Many of my Anglo friends(queer and breeders) simply cannot
understand our deeply rooted family connections. They go months, years,
lifetimes without having close familial realtionships. Some even make their
mothers sleep on the floor when they come to visit! Que horror!
I think the fact that Latinos in general do place so much emphasis on
the family is what makes it doublely(?) difficult for queers to "come out"
to the family, to be their true selves, intrgrated fully into the family
because of their fear of losing them. We saw a
very good example of this in the film last week. Claudia was basically
ostracized from her family because of her sexuality (Eduardo posted a very
good message about this topic in the film on the board). Many people can
say, Why don't you just leave-if they can't be supportive of you? but it's
not that easy when so much of your idenity is based on the family. This
is the very reason why my sisters will not come out to my parents and grandparents
for fear that they will probably never again see those family members and
maybe more because the influence they can exert on extended family members.
They WILL be seen as "Malinchistas" -as traitors of their race and their
family. It is as if they must choose - being Chicanas or being lesbians,
never both. For now, the pain of losing family is too great for them and
so they keep quiet. Cherrie Moraga was very lucky to have found the strength
in herself to choose NOT to choose - and lucky for her, it all turned out
O.K in the end. But what can we do? With the daily arrival of new immigrants
who bring the "old" attitudes with them, they help to perpetuate these
sentiments in our community?
Does anyone agree/disagree with me? I would like to know what other people feel about this topic and maybe some suggestions on how we as individuals can help with this problem.
Follow Ups:
Re: More on Chican(o) Queerness
& Feminism Nicole 14:47:47 2/28/99 (0)
Posted by Nicole on February 28, 1999 at 14:47:47:
In Reply to: More on Chican(o) Queerness & Feminism posted by Sandra on February 25, 1999 at 22:17:27:
I just wanted to say that I agree with Sandra's posting. I am not a
Chicana, so I can't say that I have personally experienced
what it is like in that culture. However my best friend's brother is
Mexican, and he is having a hard time dealing with his
homosexuality. He was raised in a strict, traditional Catholic family.
His uncle came out as gay, and he was banished from the
family. Now my friend has just recently come out to himself and to
his friends. His brother and sister found out, and they are
against it. they still communicate with him, but the relationship has
definitely changed. I asked him if he was ever going to tell his
parents and he said no. He knows that he will never be accepted by
his parents. It is especially hard for him because he doesn't
have the support of his brother or sister. I think family is extremely
important, not just for the Chicano community, but for all
people. I agree with sandra when she discusses why people don't come
out to their families, or why they don't leave. I can't
ever imagine what life would be like without my family. I hope that
others can be as lucky as Cherrie, and find the love and
support they need =)
Posted by Emily on February 27, 1999 at 09:18:36:
This week's guest speakers and readings and lectures all really opened my eyes up to the different categories and divisions in the LGBT community. Before, I think I was ignorant because I didn't account for racial, gender and other type of identities. Now, I really realize that race can affect a person's sexual identity especially since I am an Asian American.
As an Asian American, I relate to the whole "being silent" stereotype. In the Asian American culture, I feel that our families and past generations have taught us to be quiet and silent about all things especially sexuality. Sexuality is something seen as disgusting and should be suppressed. Like in my family, I never got the whole "sex talk" because my family was embarrassed to bring it up and they automatically assumed that I didn't have any sexual identites, issues or questions. I felt that I had to suppress all urges and just not feel anything sexual because it was considered wrong or shameful to even think about sex.
I think this really influences the Asian American sexual identity because since people are expected to be quiet about their sexual identity, many Asian have problems coming out because they are afraid of breaking the accepted tradition of being silent. Another thing that I think factors into the Asian American culture besides being silent is the "saving face" issue. In our culture, reputation and your image to others is extremely important. When we are ashamed or seen in a negative light, we are incredibly mortified because we want to be seen as pure and as having a good reputation. So, when people see themselves as homosexual or the families find out that a loved one is homosexual, they feel that shame has been brought onto the whole family because they are afraid of what the greater community will see them as.
I feel that it is unfortunate that our race and ethnicity sometimes puts limitations and barriers on expressing our sexual identity because we, as humans no matter what race we are, have the freedom to express our sexual preference.
Anyway, that's my little random babble on the whole Asian American experience. If anyone has any other thoughts or differing opinions, feel free because I know everyone has a different experience because like in Cohen's article, people that have the same ethnicity do not have the same sexual experience. So, this is just my perception of it and I know everyone has various encounters and situations. Thanks.
Follow Ups:
Re: The Silent Asian American
D 20:42:23 3/10/99 (1)
Re:
Re: The Silent Asian American anon 01:33:11 3/11/99 (1)
Re: Re: Re: The Silent Asian American - Yuya 01:48:37
3/17/99 (0)
Posted by D on March 10, 1999 at 20:42:23:
In Reply to: The Silent Asian American posted by Emily on February 27, 1999 at 09:18:36:
I just wanted to reply to Emily's discussion on the issue of "The Silent Asian American". Before I never really thought about all the significan factors that come into play such as race, class and gender when it comes to the homosexual experince. I assumed that if you're a homosexual, you must have alot in common with other homosexuals. After this course, I've come to realize that this is not true. I understand the previous points that have been brought up about the silence of sexuality in the Asian Culture but it just doesn't seem to fit with my experence as an Asian American. I'm Filipino, maybe it has to do with the Filipino culture. In my experience, I've encountered many more Filipinos than any other Asian subculture that are homosexual. I don't if there are just more Filipinos that are "out" about their sexuality. It seems to me that being gay is more widely accepted in my culture, at least with my family. Unlike, other Asians i haven't experienced the silence of sex in my family. Sex wasn't something that was not talked about because it was "disgusting" or something suppresed. I had the "sex talk" in my family. It may not have been as explicit as the "birds and the bees talk", but it was talked about. Although, I must say that heterosexuality was always assumed. So, sex was talked about but homosexuality did not apply to their children. My father always use to worry about my younger brother when he didn't have a girlfriend in high school. But right when he got a girlfriend, my father said, " Good thing, he's not gay." Even though my parents may be comfortable with their gay friends, when it comes to their kids it's another issue. My point is that with all issues, groups tend to be categorized. In this example, Asians are generalized to have limited views on sexuality. But, it's not like that for all Asian cultures. Not all Asian cultures hold the same beliefs.
Follow Ups:
Re: Re: The Silent Asian American
anon 01:33:11 3/11/99 (1)
Re: Re: Re: The Silent Asian American - Yuya 01:48:37
3/17/99 (0)
Posted by anon on March 11, 1999 at 01:33:11:
In Reply to: Re: The Silent Asian American posted by D on March 10, 1999 at 20:42:23:
I agree. "Asian culture" as something homogenous is a construction. I guess it depends on which ethnic group and what time period we are talking about.
I could think of popular erotic writings in certain periods in China and Japan. And lest we forget the Kama Sutra...
I also can relate to what Emily is saying. Sex is a dirty word in my
family and I grew up really asexual--not thinking and curious
about sex as most of my "American" friends. It took me living away
from home that I began to question my sexuality. I had assumed I was straight
but I began to doubt when I did not find myself sexually attracted to men
but was platonically in love with my female friends. It took many more
years before I allowed myself to be a sexual being. And then, finally I
came out to myself. Thank Buddha, my family is not Christian; otherwise,
my struggle might have been harder to overcome.
So, I guess ethnic culture, religion, legal and economic sanctions all
play a part in how we deal with sexuality.
Follow Ups:
Re: Re: Re: The
Silent Asian American - Yuya 01:48:37 3/17/99 (0)
Posted by Jennie on March 03, 1999 at 13:55:26:
I just wanted to respond to Emily's message regarding the Asian-American experience. I understand completely where you were coming from, having grown up in an Asian household. I think that it is rather unfortunate that we are brought up to keep quiet about sexual feelings and issues. Especially as an Asian woman, I have been taught that women are not supposed to have sexual feelings and if you do, you must be "that type of girl." As my mother puts it, a "bar girl"- which refers to call girls that pick up on men in bars, are the only ones who dress sexy, act sexy, and I guess have sex at all. Anyways, I think that bringing up] the issue of race and gender in discussions about sexuality is very important and I am glad to learn more about it.
Posted by Yuya on March 17, 1999 at 01:48:37:
In Reply to: Re: Re: The Silent Asian American posted by anon on March 11, 1999 at 01:33:11:
I suppose all the Asian Americans in this class are going to respond
to this post, but it's the part that we identify with the most. It's
true, in Asian households we are taught to keep quiet about certain
things like sex and the necessity of "saving face." God forbid if we
ever even considered the possibility of being gay. Protecting your
family was always the first priority. My family was not totally
traditional, especially in the last few years, in the sense that my
parents have become more "Americanized." They are now open to
ideas like interacial marriage, although they would prefer me to marry
an Asian, if not Chinese, man. But first, they would like to see
me taking care of myself without the influence of a man or at least
take comfort in the knowledge that I would be able to. But I never
had the sex talk either (at least until this year when my parents realized
that I knew guys). My mother would always try and give my
sister and I the "talk" a little too late, whether it be for talking
to strangers or taking drugs. We had already learned about it from
school, our friends, or off the t.v. but we grew up just fine with
morals and everything! Growing up in American society changed
how a "normal" Chinese daughter would have turned out. I'm not the
quiet, obedient, mousy type of girl who'll end up being a good
wife one day, but I'm outspoken (maybe not in class) with plenty of
opinions to go around. I would say to hell with everybody else! If
I wanna be gay then I am and everybody else is gonna have to deal with
it. Not my problem. Kind of like how Claudia(?) on the out
panel would have said.