Discussions on LGBTs and Schooling
Here is a mapping of the conversations students had on the discussion board regarding having LGBT schools. An ALL QUEER School? - Nancy 13:17:55
3/04/99 (17)
Re:
An ALL QUEER School? - m.c. 03:20:46 3/17/99 (0)
Public
or Private? - Yuya 00:18:07 3/17/99 (0)
Re:
An ALL QUEER School? - Jennie 14:29:58 3/16/99 (0)
Re:
An ALL QUEER School? - Gloria 14:39:08 3/06/99 (0)
Re:
Plessy v. Ferguson? - Eric 23:23:06 3/04/99 (8)
Re:
Plessy v. Ferguson? - Melissa 12:20:31 3/07/99 (7)
Re: Re: Plessy v. Ferguson? - A.T. 17:04:51 3/10/99
(0)
Re: Re: Plessy v. Ferguson? - JP 15:36:46 3/09/99 (5)
Re: Re: Re: Plessy v. Ferguson? - Dara 19:13:02 3/09/99
(4)
Re:Plessy v. Ferguson? - Melissa 19:34:32 3/10/99
(3)
The Crusades - Justin 12:06:06 3/13/99 (2)
Re: The Crusades - Sandra 10:30:02 3/19/99 (1)
Re: Re: The Crusades - Justin 10:41:19 3/20/99
(0)
Re:
An ALL QUEER School? - Jenn 23:22:48 3/04/99 (3)
Why
An ALL ANYTHING School? - Samantha 11:37:26 3/10/99 (2)
Re: Why An ALL ANYTHING School? - Minnie 18:04:48
3/11/99 (1)
Re: Re: Why An ALL ANYTHING School? - Mimi 20:22:07
3/14/99 (0)
Is there any hope? - Emily 17:47:26 3/10/99 (3)
Re:
Is there any hope? - Maria 15:02:25 3/16/99 (0)
Re:
Is there any hope? - Joshua 21:47:13 3/12/99 (0)
Re:
Is there any hope? - kazan 09:07:30 3/12/99 (0)
Read "Out Front"~ Some very important issues to think about... - Colleen 09:44:55 3/14/99 (0)
Posted by Nancy on March 04, 1999 at 13:17:55:
I don't know if anyone has been watching or listening to the news lately,
but I recently saw on the news that the LAUSD school
district has created an all QUEER (homosexual) school. From what I
have heard it seems as if the queer school has given hope
to homosexual teenagers that have had problems of being harrassed in
schools because of their sexual preference. It is said that
the school has helped many of the queer teenagers obtain a fair education,
a network, and support. But is segregation the
answer. Should we be segregating these teens or should we be trying
to fix the "real problem," which is the harrassment and
abuse that many receive in schools from their peers at such an early
age. How should the problem be fixed or even dealt with?
Follow Ups:
Re: An ALL QUEER School?
Gloria 14:39:08 3/06/99 (0)
Re: Plessy v. Ferguson? Eric
23:23:06 3/04/99 (6)
Re:
Plessy v. Ferguson? Melissa 12:20:31 3/07/99 (5)
Re:
Re: Plessy v. Ferguson? A.T. 17:04:51 3/10/99 (0)
Re:
Re: Plessy v. Ferguson? JP 15:36:46 3/09/99 (3)
Re: Re: Re: Plessy v. Ferguson? Dara 19:13:02 3/09/99
(2)
Re:Plessy v. Ferguson? Melissa 19:34:32 3/10/99
(1)
The Crusades Justin 12:06:06 3/13/99 (0)
Re: The Crusades Sandra 10:30:02 3/19/99 (1)
Re: Re: The Crusades Justin 10:41:19 3/20/99 (0)
Re: An ALL QUEER School? Jenn
23:22:48 3/04/99 (3)
Why
An ALL ANYTHING School? Samantha 11:37:26 3/10/99 (2)
Re:
Why An ALL ANYTHING School? Minnie 18:04:48 3/11/99 (1)
Re: Re: Why An ALL ANYTHING School? Mimi 20:22:07
3/14/99 (0)
Posted by Gloria on March 06, 1999 at 14:39:08:
In Reply to: An ALL QUEER School? posted by Nancy on March 04, 1999 at 13:17:55:
I heard about the all queer school and I think it is good for teenagers
to feel safe while gaining an education. However, does this
mean that we will segregate all groups into their own schools? I feel
it is not right for anyone to feel alienated and picked on
according to their racial, sexual identities. Society has to accept
the diverse society that we live in. I agree that there should be
more educating of people about diverse topics, as racial relations,
characteristics and differences in sexual orientation. I believe
people should not be judged by a predominant perception of what normal
is.
Posted by Eric on March 04, 1999 at 23:23:06:
In Reply to: An ALL QUEER School? posted by Nancy on March 04, 1999 at 13:17:55:
Is segregation ever the answer? I have not heard of the "All queer school"
but I feel that any type of segregation is wrong. The
reason that people have to be segregated is because mainstream society
doesn't feel the issues and concerns of those types of
people are valid. Insted of segregating homosexuals, why don't normal
school have that education as part of their curriculum.
And while were on the subject of expanding curriculum, why don't schools
have classes on race relations either. It seems to me
that things so basic as the rights of all human beings are constantly
ignored in schools. Why isn't part of the day devoted to
racism, sexism, or homophobia? Aren't these problems in our everyday
lives? Why do schools constantly choose to ignore
these issues? The sociologist inside of me tells me it is because schools
want to preserve the rights and priviledges of the
dominant class, but I don't think they really think it through like
that. I think people are afraid to confront thier own fears and
predjudices, and so reflect irrational beliefs upon their children.
In any case, I don't believe segregation is the answer, for how
can different types of people understand eachother if they are never
in contact with one another? It doesn't make sense to me.
The schools need to change though, as homophobia runs rampant throughout
the system, but shipping the "queer" kids off to
another school is not the answer. Granted it may help those kids who
are being ridiculed at their schools, but now that they are
seperated will they be looked upon as equals? I doubt it.
Follow Ups:
Re: Plessy v. Ferguson?
Melissa 12:20:31 3/07/99 (5)
Re:
Re: Plessy v. Ferguson? A.T. 17:04:51 3/10/99 (0)
Re:
Re: Plessy v. Ferguson? JP 15:36:46 3/09/99 (3)
Re:
Re: Re: Plessy v. Ferguson? Dara 19:13:02 3/09/99 (2)
Re:Plessy v. Ferguson? Melissa 19:34:32 3/10/99
(1)
The Crusades Justin 12:06:06 3/13/99 (0)
Re: The Crusades Sandra 10:30:02 3/19/99 (1)
Re: Re: The Crusades Justin 10:41:19 3/20/99 (0)
Posted by Melissa on March 07, 1999 at 12:20:31:
In Reply to: Re: Plessy v. Ferguson? posted by Eric on March 04, 1999 at 23:23:06:
I have to disagree with you here!! After four years of going to an all girls school, I have to say that sometimes segregation does work. My education centered on women and their abilty to achieve despite the male dominated hierarchy that prevales in society. We read books by Cherrie Moraga, Sandra Cisneros, and Maya Angelou that all reenforced our sense of womanhood. I think that this education helped to build my self-esteem and realize that I was not limited by male ordered expectations. I think that if segregation from the male population could dismantle all those years of cultural machismo that I had endured, than maybe the same can happen for homosexuals. A school catering to their needs and centered on fostering their development might be just what they need to survive in society.
Follow Ups:
Re: Re: Plessy v. Ferguson?
A.T. 17:04:51 3/10/99 (0)
Re: Re: Plessy v. Ferguson?
JP 15:36:46 3/09/99 (3)
Re:
Re: Re: Plessy v. Ferguson? Dara 19:13:02 3/09/99 (2)
Re:Plessy
v. Ferguson? Melissa 19:34:32 3/10/99 (1)
The Crusades Justin 12:06:06 3/13/99 (0)
Re: The Crusades Sandra 10:30:02 3/19/99 (1)
Re: Re: The Crusades Justin 10:41:19 3/20/99 (0)
Posted by A.T. on March 10, 1999 at 17:04:51:
In Reply to: Re: Plessy v. Ferguson? posted by Melissa on March 07, 1999 at 12:20:31:
I have to agree with everyone who said that segregation in almost any situation is a bad idea. It's good that you feel that going to an all girls school was a good experience for you, but who's to say that you wouldn't have excelled just the same in a mixed environment? As can be seen in the population of students at UCLA, there are plenty of women who, if they were constricted by our "male dominated," "machismo" tainted society, are in the position as you are in terms of having self esteem and believing in themselves. I just feel that segregating people, no matter the circumstance has as many or more negative effects as positive ones.
Posted by JP on March 09, 1999 at 15:36:46:
In Reply to: Re: Plessy v. Ferguson? posted by Melissa on March 07, 1999 at 12:20:31:
I completely disagree with any form of segregation based on any difference, whether it be sex, sexuality, or race. I understand your point that many females feel threatened by the male dominated classroom but segregating groups ignores the underlying problem. When you say that girls like yourself who attended all girl schools find it much easier to learn and interact will fellow students, you yourself are falling into the dominant white males trap. By segregating students based on differences from the dominant class, and claiming that learning is more fluid, it allows the dominant white male the opportunity to point out deffiencies, and abnormalcies that reinforce their claim to superiority. In my view it is a mistake to seperate anyone who is different. Our country has come to far since the time of Brown v. The Board of Education to want to reinvent segregation. The way to solve the problem found in today's school system is to spend more time educating the dominant white males about diversity, sensitivity, and acceptance. By doing this we will be able to learn more from eachothers diverse backgrounds and experiences and not limit ourselfs to interacting with the people we feel the most comfortable with.
Follow Ups:
Re: Re: Re: Plessy v. Ferguson?
Dara 19:13:02 3/09/99 (2)
Re:Plessy
v. Ferguson? Melissa 19:34:32 3/10/99 (1)
The
Crusades Justin 12:06:06 3/13/99 (0)
Re: The Crusades Sandra 10:30:02 3/19/99 (1)
Re: Re: The Crusades Justin 10:41:19 3/20/99 (0)
Posted by Dara on March 09, 1999 at 19:13:02:
In Reply to: Re: Re: Plessy v. Ferguson? posted by JP on March 09, 1999 at 15:36:46:
Segregation is not the answer. By sending queer students to a separate
school, it is sending the message to the kids that had
problems with the queers at their school that the school system did
them a favor by sending their problem away. Is running from
the problem the answer? Maybe in the short run, but if things are to
change for other generations then running is not the answer.
Instead, the American school system needs major reform in the ways
and subjects that are taught to this nations youth. First of
all, the school should start teaching subjects from a more objective
view instead of through the mouths of the dominant while
male class. Also, the schools should include in their curriculum the
struggles and triumphs of the oppressed in our society -
women, minorities, and homosexuals. Education, if done correctly, can
teach tolerance and acceptance of those who are
different, not from dominant groups, but different as individuals.
By this I mean that I should accept people who are different
from me, and not base my ideas of different on dominant groups but
on recognizing the differences in all people.
I have not yet addressed a short term solution. First of all, the kids
who are harrassing the queer kids should be punished, along
with any school officials who are contributing to the problem. In my
high school people got in-school suspension, where they
spent the day picking up trash around campus, as a punishment for ditching
class. Similar punishments could be installed. Also,
peer counseling groups for the teens that are being harrassed to help
them understand they are not alone and find unity amongst
their peers and faculty. I also suggest that the schools, starting
in elementary, form several diverse groups of about 15 to meet
each week with their groups. In my junior high this was done. A school
counselor would meet with each group once a week for
an hour and the group would play games of trust and other ice-breaker-type
games with people who they would normally not
interact with. It made for a more friendlier atmosphere around school.
This program should be progressive and by high school
the students should be at a point where they can do things similar
to the racial reconciliation that is going on amongst some of
the churches. Through this, I think that the younger generations can
learn to accept eachother and eachother's differences.
In response the the idea that all girls schools work, so all queer schools
should also, I disagree. Queers are the minority of the
minorities. It is not a matter of boy is smarter than girl, but a harsher
reality is being pushed that queers are bad, immoral, trash,
and do not deserve to live on the same planet as the straights. The
oppressions queers face are many more and much harsher
than the oppression women face. At least things are not thrown at women
simply because they are women - maybe if they were
black, brown, butch, but not simpley because they have ovaries. Groups
should not have to be segregated to get an equal
education and the confidence and safety to go to school each day. Schools
should be reformed so that every student in every
school is given an equal opportunity to suceed, as a student and a
person. The books by Cherrie Moraga and Maya Angelou
should be read in all schools, not just all-female schools.
Follow Ups:
Re:Plessy v. Ferguson?
Melissa 19:34:32 3/10/99 (1)
The
Crusades Justin 12:06:06 3/13/99 (0)
Re: The Crusades Sandra 10:30:02 3/19/99 (1)
Re: Re: The Crusades Justin 10:41:19 3/20/99 (0)
Posted by Melissa on March 10, 1999 at 19:34:32:
In Reply to: Re: Re: Re: Plessy v. Ferguson? posted by Dara on March 09, 1999 at 19:13:02:
I agree with you. The school system needs reform, books by female authors
need to be read more often, and men need to be much more accepting of issues
dealing with diversity. However, somethings are just nearly impossible
to achieve. Therefore alternatives to the current system need to be considered.
I was just pointing out that on one indivual level, segregation did work.
My experience at an integrated high school hindered my development
because teachers, both male and female, ignored women. The teachers always
saw the boys as the achievers and the women as the breeders. I don't believe
that the answer to the problem is in teaching white men to be more sensitive
and accepting because for generations men have been conditioned to believe
that women, gays, and ethnic minorities don't count in society.
I'm not talking about mandatory segregation, I'm just saying that people should be able to choose to learn in an environment where they feel the most comfortable. I felt the most comfortable at an all girls school where everyone celebrated womanhood, where men were the minority, and where I could talk freely about the problems I face as a woman.
Follow Ups:
The Crusades Justin
12:06:06 3/13/99 (0)
Re:
The Crusades Sandra 10:30:02 3/19/99 (1)
Re: Re: The Crusades Justin 10:41:19 3/20/99 (0)
Posted by Justin on March 13, 1999 at 12:06:06:
In Reply to: Re:Plessy v. Ferguson? posted by Melissa on March 10, 1999 at 19:34:32:
Well, I can see that there is overwhelming support from this class to
abolish the three or four gay schools that exist in the U.S.
(NY, SF, LA). I would just like to say that while I feel that perhaps
the motives of those who feel this way, and their goals, are
good, they are missing the whole point of gay schools. Gay schools
are there to serve the interests of the gay children not the
straight ones. Gay children are unable to get the same kind of education
in mainstream institutions because of the
institutionalized homophobia that exists there. It impedes their ability
to learn and thus, they are not being served by the system
that purports to serve all.
While, it may be noble to say that we should keep gay kids in school
because in the long run straight youth's exposure to gay
youth will chip away at their homophobia, it seems to me that the sacrifice
is too great. I mean, you have kids that FEAR FOR
THEIR LIVES, that are CONTEMPLATING and COMMITTING SUICIDE because
of their negative self perceptions that
are products of living in a hostile environment. Many of the children
in these schools are too poor to afford to go to a safer
private school or for their parents to afford to live in a more affluent
school district that has the time and the inclination to adress
this issue. Many of the students in the gay schools are living in foster
care or under the care of the state. This group has no
resources no support network no power and they are at their most critical
stage of coming out where they realize that they are
gay, but have yet to make good sense of it. They know they are queer
and yet so many things in society tell them that this is
wrong bad sick etc.. They need time at least to build a positive identity
that is strong enough to survive their hostile world.
This reminds me of the middle ages when the those in the Western world
sent out armies of young children to fight wars for
them (in the name of God) and the result was whole sale slaughter.
Look at Matthew Sheppard. He was well past high school
age and he was still unable to cope with all the the negative crap
that is placed on homosexuals. I agree that segregation is not
the answer but neither is sacraficing children to support a cause.
These children need a safe and positive environment to
establish feeling of self worth that they can then tap when/if they
CHOOSE to take an active part in the culture war.
When I dropped out of High School and move to SF, I joined several LGBT
Youth Groups who were not part of any school.
Many of those kids had to sneak there, lots of them were poor and many
were extremely unhappy and suicidal. I realized that I
had it pretty good, but I also saw good and strong people who were
my peers who were on the verge of self-destruction and
death.
I really appreciate all of the thought and positive messages that have
been expressed on this topic and I am glad that people are
thinking about things. Its just that I disagree, that's all, OK? I
don't mean to attack anyone's personal views, just contribute to a
debate.
My message:
1. Queer schools are good and serve an important role in this sometimes life and death struggle.
2. 1. We need to explore other avenues with which to fight the Culture War.
--Justin
Follow Ups:
Re:
The Crusades Sandra 10:30:02 3/19/99 (1)
Re: Re: The Crusades Justin 10:41:19 3/20/99 (0)
Posted by Sandra on March 19, 1999 at 10:30:02:
In Reply to: The Crusades posted by Justin on March 13, 1999 at 12:06:06:
Justin-
I can completely see your point about this issue, but I think that your
idea is unrealistic. Don't you think it would be better for
EVERYONE in society if we made changes in the existing system? Why
segregate queer kids? Don't they have enough to deal with?
Putting them in "special" schools would only facilitate feelings of
isolation and marginalization fom society as a whole. Although I think
the idea of the separation of queer kids is benefitial to the kids
that are experiencing oppression today, I would also like to think that
there would be a better long term solution for my future children and
grandchildren who might be queer.
I think that we need to start with the teachers. They definitely need
to have some kind of sensitivity training to deal with issues of
sexuality and orientation. I see a better future with our generation,
since we have grown up in a time where queer sexualities are out in
the open and spoken about. I do think that our generation will be more
tolerant(for lack of a bette word) of LGBT peoples than have
older generations.I also think that our generation and those in our
generation who will go in to eduation as a career will be much better
equipped to educate and treat ALL children equally.
Sandra
Follow Ups:
Re:
Re: The Crusades Justin 10:41:19 3/20/99 (0)
Posted by Justin on March 20, 1999 at 10:41:19:
In Reply to: Re: The Crusades posted by Sandra on March 19, 1999 at 10:30:02:
Sandra....
You are right, Qeer Schools are not the answer and the problem does
need to be addressed and top-down beginning with the
administrators and teachers is a great idea. My sister is not going
back to her Catholic School because she has no friends there now
after she defended queer people and admitted that she had a gay brother.
I just cannot imagine telling her that I am sorry but she has to
back to that school next year even if she has no friends and the teachers
and administration won't pay more than lipservice to her
needs. That she has to go back to do her part to fight for social change
regardless of her subjective experience. Her going to a
completel different school is similar to having queer youth go to a
different school (only she is straight and twelve and has the option
of staying in the closet politically at her new school). I have misgivings
about having children lead the way for social change while
they are still children..........Something must be done.......I am
torn.
--Justin
Posted by Jenn on March 04, 1999 at 23:22:48:
In Reply to: An ALL QUEER School? posted by Nancy on March 04, 1999 at 13:17:55:
I have heard about this before, and for some reason I thought that they
already started one years ago. I guess I was wrong. Anyway. This is a tough
question to answer (at least for me) because it could fall into either
side. In a way it does seem like a good idea, because then gay students
would not have to worry about being harrassed or being rejected by fellow
classmates. Then again like you said, it seems like a form of segragation.
Doing this will make them feel like they do not belong with "normal" society
and make them feel isolated. It is kind of like a damn if you do damn if
you don't situation with an all queer school. Some may feel that it would
be better for the students some will say thatr it won't be better. This
is somethinmg that one should think hard and long about, and the feelings
of the gay students should be taken into consideration as well. What if
there are some that do not want to go to an all queer school? They should
not be forced to go to one against their will. Personally this could cause
more harm than good. It would make them easy targets for those close minded
people who fear the unknown and want to get rid of them. Besides. will
there ever be a neighborhood that would accept an all queer school?
This is just my 2 cents....
Jenn
Follow Ups:
Why An ALL ANYTHING School?
Samantha 11:37:26 3/10/99 (2)
Re:
Why An ALL ANYTHING School? Minnie 18:04:48 3/11/99 (1)
Re: Re: Why An ALL ANYTHING School? Mimi 20:22:07 3/14/99
(0)
Posted by Samantha on March 10, 1999 at 11:37:26:
In Reply to: Re: An ALL QUEER School? posted by Jenn on March 04, 1999 at 23:22:48:
This is what I don't understand about this school... Why? I understand
that something needs to be done to support and protect
the queer students of today, but to isolate and segrigate them is horrible.
If this is the way we want to deal with oppression, why
don't we create schools for only fat kids, they get tormented too,
in some cases worse than homosexuals. Or why don't we
reinstitute black only schools in the south, racism and racial torment
are still high there. Better yet we can put everyone in a
seperate school and not alow anyone to experience different people
and cultures. Then no one would get hurt, right? I'm sorry
but this seems like the absoluly wrong direction to take. We as a society
need to educate children even younger about the
diversity of people and that everyone is to be excepted and given a
chance. Until we can change the attitudes of people a
seperate school won't do any good. All those bullies would simply have
an easier time finding the queer students, they would all
be in one place, so all the bullies would have to do is wait outside
the school and beat them after school instead of durring. Oh,
lucky them.
PS- sorry for any spelling errors.
Follow Ups:
Re: Why An ALL ANYTHING
School? Minnie 18:04:48 3/11/99 (1)
Re:
Re: Why An ALL ANYTHING School? Mimi 20:22:07 3/14/99 (0)
Posted by Minnie on March 11, 1999 at 18:04:48:
In Reply to: Why An ALL ANYTHING School? posted by Samantha on March 10, 1999 at 11:37:26:
After reading a few of the responses in relation to the ALL QUEER school post-up, it seems that many of you disagree with the segregation of queers. I would like to defend why it's not so bad to have a QUEER school. I think it's ultimately up to the individual. I don't agree that there should be a law that states that queers MUST go to a queer school and that heterosexuals MUST go to a heterosexual school. BUT~ a person should be able to have that choice. I think there should be gay schools established but no one should be forced to attend them. It's just that some queers may feel more comfortable in a queer school, although it may be more extreme than something like a support group. But why are there different organizations that advocate building a sense of community? There are quite a number of them on our own campus that vary from race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, politics, etc. Do they advocate segregation? Absolutely not. They're established but people are not forced or required to join them. It should be the same for Queer schools. What's the big deal of establishing them? They will just add to the diversity of our society, not to segregation within it.
From the coming out panel, I remember that Justin said he had immediately moved to San Francisco after realizing his sexuality (sorry if that's not EXACTLY how he stated it). Was it just to get away from discrimination? Maybe, but I understood it as his way to find a community that he felt he belonged to. He could have gone to any other location but he chose SF. I wonder why (?). But not all queers may react the same way. Take for instance Claudia. She was so determined to integrate with her own environment, that she didn't give a sh-t about what anyone else thought. She definitely knew how to handle her situation, but not everyone will handle it the way she did.
My point is that queers should have the CHOICE of attending a queer school, so let it be established! They have their reasons whether it is protection, security, a sense of community, or whatever. It's not a form of segregation if the law does not demand queers to only attend queer schools. If communities/organizations that supports a certain belief, race, culture, gender or whatever, are considered forms of segregation then let's get rid of Chinatown, Koreatown, gay bars,heterosexual strip joints, Latino organizations, churches, temples, Catholic schools, all-female (or male) schools, bla bla bla..the list goes on. The reason we have such different communities within one country is because America is supposed to support freedom and diversity, right? Then why not build queer schools if it is a form of community?
Follow Ups:
Re: Re: Why An ALL ANYTHING
School? Mimi 20:22:07 3/14/99 (0)
Posted by Mimi on March 14, 1999 at 20:22:07:
In Reply to: Re: Why An ALL ANYTHING School? posted by Minnie on March 11, 1999 at 18:04:48:
I've been hearing many sides of this interesting and controversial debate about the ALL-QUEER school. And this is what I think...
In support of all-queer schools, we can look at the example of all-women schools, and most recently, all-women classes. I read in the newspaper that Barbara Smith, a feminist, teaches classes and only allows women students to enroll. Her arguement is that women tend to subconsciously defer to men when they are present, so she believes that women can only reach their full potential (academically) when they are in a safe, all-female environment. This relates to the homophobia/heterosexist issue because gay people would also benefit from these kinds of "everyone similar" environments.
However, to disagree with this, I also believe that segregation causes even more of an "US vs. THEM" ideology. What is so strikingly different between heterosexual and homosexual people? To make these all-queer schools means that they are trying separate themselves academically, socially, culturally from the straight students. But we should all be learning the same things in academia! Perhaps if school curriculum could include learning about SEXUALITY instead of HETEROsexuality or HOMOsexuality, then there wouldn't be such a need for segregation. The way things are now, gay people grow up knowing a lot more about heterosexuality than straight people know about homosexuality. But if we all learned about sexuality in general, then the "who" part would not really matter. Because gay love is the same as straight love, right???
Mimi
Posted by Emily on March 10, 1999 at 17:47:26:
I usually consider myself a total optimism and I tend to always hope
for the best. Except when I was reading the articles from
the reader about homosexuality issues in schools and institutions,
I felt a little discouraged. The articles talked of making the
college environment more sensitive to gay issues by establishing policies
on language, having college officials being more
educated about gay issues so they can be a good role model to the students,
prohibiting discrimination, and research. I think
that these are wonderful steps to institutions being more understanding
and in tune with gay issues. I agree that we do need to
be more educated and to have people that can advise us and teach us
about these issues. Except, I'm not sure if this will entirely work.
I feel that a person's feelings are tough to change. I think that a
person's beliefs and ideologies come from his family and his
environment that he grew up. From there, that is how he looks at the
world and how he perceives people. Even when people
go to college or go to a different environment, they tend to keep their
beliefs from when they grew up. Although policies that
enforce understanding gay issues may help a little bit, I feel that
it really depends on the person's surroundings and what he has
grown up with. I have realized that people are so hard to change and
especially, in college, people can be very critical and feel
like they are superior than others because they are in an institution
of higher learning. They keep their beliefs and sometimes are
unwilling to change. I really wish that I am wrong and that if these
policies were ever implemented, people would be more
tolerant and understanding. For now, I have observed that even with
education and speakers, there are still some people that
are not open and not accepting because of their belief system.
I also think that these policies will be effective depending on where
they are implemented. In a school in California, they may be
more effective because there is the perception that people in California
are more liberal and accepting and I feel that this is true.
Here at UCLA, there are numerous support groups for the LGBT community
and there is a sense of awareness and sensitivity
to these issues. On the other hand, if we had these policies in Iowa(
sorry, if I offend anyone from Iowa), it may be more
difficult because Iowa may be more conservative and may have the general
consensus that gays are not morally right and will
not change their opinions even if colleges have all these programs
teaching about gay issues.
I hope that my feelings are wrong and that if ever implemented, these
policies and programs would help people in institutions
become more understanding and sensitive to the LGBT community and change
people's ideologies.
Follow Ups:
Re: Is there any hope? Joshua
21:47:13 3/12/99 (0)
Re: Is there any hope? kazan
09:07:30 3/12/99 (0)
Posted by Joshua on March 12, 1999 at 21:47:13:
In Reply to: Is there any hope? posted by Emily on March 10, 1999 at 17:47:26:
I'm glad you're optimistic, and never let that optimism die!! I'm glad
you notice these aspects of college politics, so therefore,
you can either work to remedy the problem, or you can sit back and
hopefully someone will take care of it. If you are concern
that belief systems are formed at an early age, and thus are hard to
change, please do something about it (are you going into an
educational profession). Most influence is made during the high school
years, and the curriculum lacks courses in LGBTS,
becuase people are too afraid to push for them, but they don't try,
so we never know if they would pass the powers that be!!
Luckily, I plan to go into education and be on the forefront of implementing
LGBT issues in the curriculum, because only
through education, and charismatic influence, can we hope to change
the belief systems of the next generation of society.
Posted by kazan on March 12, 1999 at 09:07:30:
In Reply to: Is there any hope? posted by Emily on March 10, 1999 at 17:47:26:
I do think people's opinions can be changed. If they couldn't we would
still think the world is flat. It's just that radical change is
hard for most to accept ( right away ). The new generation of kids
today are more hip and kowledgeable ( even in Iowa ) and
will change the future. Already the ideas of feminism and ecology are
integrated in our youth. Girl power and recycling are
everywhere, and Rue Paul (sp ?) has a talk show. I think this reflects
the positive swing towards societal consciousness and
sensativity. Humans were made to adapt. Those that don't, fall off
the evolutionary cycle.
Posted by Maria on March 16, 1999 at 15:02:25:
In Reply to: Is there any hope? posted by Emily on March 10, 1999 at 17:47:26:
Considering that the negativity toward the queer community emerges out of ignorance one would think that through raising awareness the negativity would reduce and eventually no longer exist. Cretainly it is harder to change the ideology of someone who not only refuses to even consider a different way of viewing homosexuality but also feel free to express their hatred. Maybe I'm being a bit optimistic in thinking that this group of people are in fact a minority, for I do feel that a lot of the homophobia results because the only thing most of the population is exposed to are the stereotypes. For how many people actually know a queer person? How many people are aware of the struggles a queer person goes through? of the different ways we are discriminated? The queer community takes up a significant part of the population, whether it's 10% or 33%. Yet, only a very small proportion is actually visible. When one considers that most of the negativity toward the queer community results from lack of exposure, lack of understanding and how providing with this creates change then one finds hope.
By being involved in the community, being visible and raising awareness we combat common misconceptions about the LGBT community. Our community consists of a diverse portion of the population, it encompasses every race, class, gender, religion, profession etc. Not every queer person is a gay-male a hairdresser or every lesbian a gym teacher as the sterotypes tend to indicate, not that there is anyhting wrong with these professions but we are all different. In my personal life whether it's through being involved in the LBGT community or living life in general I have come across these misconceptions. By being a straight-looking (I don't know how it is but some how I pass as straight),latina and actually coming out to people I have given people something to think about. Through activism we become visible, we raise our concerns. And though we cannot change the world overnight we can aspire to make it better or at least more gay friendly. By raising awareness to at least one person, striving to change thier ideology to see us for who we really are one takes a small step and when more people take it upon themselves to make these small steps, when one organizes and unites forces to take even bigger steps in the end these steps add up. For all we have to do is look back in time and see how in just one century how much has been accomplished.
Posted by Colleen on March 14, 1999 at 09:44:55:
I really hope that everyone gets a chance to read the article by Johnston, titled "Out Front". She raises a lot of really important issues that need to be addressed.
Schools and I'm talking about all schools starting with elementry schools,
need to look at the way homophobia and heterosexism affect everyone and
do something to address how they can creat an environment that fosters
acceptance and appreciation of lgbt people. Not only are there gay students,
but also children with gay parents, and other family members. Everyone,
both gay and straight, needs to be a part of this. Johnston talks about
how she gets burned out due to the fact that
she is constantly called upon to address gay issues. She needs people
to help her, this means gay as well as straight. I think that it is essential
for heterosexual teachers to step up and not expect gay teachers to be
the ones to do this. There is so much more at risk for gay teachers. They
can loose their job, not to mention the fact that they may not be in a
place in which they are ready to take the risk of coming out. Also, there
is strength in numbers and there are a lot more straight teachers. I also
think that students and others will listen to heterosexual teachers who
advocate for gay people because they won't write them off as some angry/activist/outspoken
gay person asking for special rights. People will see you don't have to
be gay to advocate for people who are. And that people who aren't care
also care about these issues.
I think people should really try to see the film "It's Elementry". Too bad we couldn't have watched it in our class. It is a film that documents different schools where they talked to students about gay and lesbian people. The film showed examples of both elementry and high schools. It is amazing to see how open young children are, how much they know and absorb, especially in contrast to what happens when students gets older. When they showed high school classrooms, the students were much more resistant, negative and disrespectful. But, when they showed little kids, they were so open and saying how they don't understand why people have a problem with gay people, etc. This film demonstrates how important and possible it is to start this sort of discussion with young children. People seem to think that in order to talk about gay people you have to talk about sex, like that is all being gay is about. It is ridiculous. Another awesome thing about this film is that it was the straight teachers having these discussions in their classrooms.
I also think Johnston made an important point about having out gay teachers so that there are gay role models for all students. This raises an important question, do gay teachers have a responsibility to come out especially to their gay students, so that they can be a resource and support to them. I know there was one teacher/coach at my high school who some friends of mine and I came out to hoping she would talk with us (we knew she was gay)and even after we put ourselves out there she wouldn't make an effort to do the same about herself. It was hard because I think it was obvious that we wnated someone who we could talk to, but at the same time we knew that she must have had reservations. I don't know, I really wish it wasn't so hard for teachers to be out, because it would be so helpful to have someone like that to talk to.
Johnston says, schools are supposed to be safe for all students. They won't be until teachers start making this an everyday issue, and stop treating it as a taboo subject or one that doesn't affect everyone. I really hope our generation will start to do this. Just one really simple example that may seem silly is if a math teacher wrote a word problem on the board that said something about Joey's two mom's went shopping for his birthday and had so much to spend and a list of things to buy. What can't they buy? Also, jsut asking kids why they say certain words and how they hurt people. Just simple everyday pronouns and language and discussions are ways to begin to challenge institutionalized heterosexism that affects everyone.
Posted by Jennie on March 16, 1999 at 14:29:58:
In Reply to: An ALL QUEER School? posted by Nancy on March 04, 1999 at 13:17:55:
In response to all of the comments made regarding an all queer school, I would have to say that it is beyond me why you would want to segregate homosexual people into their own educational institutions. Yes, I understand that it is difficult growing up and going to school with other kids who may make fun of you, or even hate you because of your sexuality. However, how would segregating gay children into their own schools help solve the problems of homophobia? It seems to be going back to the old separate but equal attitude of the 50's. I think that separating gay children into their own schools would not only increase homophobia and hatred, but it would also cause the new generation of homosexual people to be even more isolated and disparate from the society at large. All of the work of the gay activists would have been a wasted effort if separate schools are formed. Although it may be helpful for gay children to be in an environment that is more understanding and made up of their contemporaries, the costs far outweigh these benefits- in my opinion anyways.
Posted by Yuya on March 17, 1999 at 00:18:07:
In Reply to: An ALL QUEER School? posted by Nancy on March 04, 1999 at 13:17:55:
Just to clear things up a bit, will someone let me know if this queer school that everybody is debating about is a private or a public school? If it is a private school then it should be able to educate in whatever way that makes them happy. I'm not well versed in the law, but isn't it kind of illegal to have a public school that's not open to everybody? Everybody meaning the heterosexuals that would have to go to school, too. And if they happen to live in the neighborhood and would need to be bussed to the nearest heterosexual school that was across town, then that would be the whole plessy vs. ferguson arguement. Although the homosexual school would also be open to heterosexuals and if they were open minded enough to want to learn in that kind of environment, who would actually want to? Growing up in a society where you're teased if you're different, going to a school for "queers" even if you're straight would get you pretty beat up anyway. You might as well be gay. There is also the all girls school arguement saying that it was a positive experience in providing a nurturing environment and reinforced their identities as women. But I grew up in a public school and was tortured mercilessly as much as the next guy and I have as much confidence in myself if not more than if I had gone to an all girls school, too. But they have the right to go if they want to learn in that kind environment, it's their choice. And since it is privately funded, why not have one of those for gays? A huge problem with that is that a lot of homosexual teens are runaways and will not have the money it would take to attend a private school and their parents will most likely not give them the money to do it because of that whole nuclear family idea that's going around.
Posted by m.c. on March 17, 1999 at 03:20:46:
In Reply to: An ALL QUEER School? posted by Nancy on March 04, 1999 at 13:17:55:
Don't mind me that I won't be as polite because I am getting annoyed and tired.
A lot of you who are arguing against a gay school are really arguing in the abstract. You compare this to forced segregation. If you had read Justin's message, that's not the case. These schools emerged because of a REAL NEED to support queer youth who are being abused, neglected and thrown out of their houses for being queer. They don't have anyone and no where to turn to. Eagle Center is a school (continuation?) for queer youth who would otherwise be lost to the streets. It provides them a space to get an education that won't kill their self-esteems. It provides them a space to meet other queer youths and feel normal for the first time. It allows them to study without fear and intimidation.
So, what queer schools are are practical interventions to the REAL HOMOPHOBIA
and HETEROSEXISM that these students are facing in REAL TIME. Guess what
folks, we are not in utopia and unless you can offer a better alternative,
these schools are all that these kids have.