Coming Out Discussions Page
This page has a map of links to students conversations regarding coming out. These conversations took place after our class had a Coming Out Panel where queer students shared with us about their coming out experiences. There were gay men, bisexual women and lesbians of many different cultural and class backgrounds: one African-American lesbian, two Latina bisexual women, one Latina lesbian, one gay Latino man, and one European-American gay man. We learned that "coming out" is a process rather than a one time day. We learned that religion, class, gender and race factor in how people come out, if at all. Context also matters a great deal. For example, people may be out in school but not at home to their parents.This page also has a link to the summary and analysis of all the students' conversations on Coming Out in the discussion board.
Students Conversations regarding Coming Out Panel:
out panel - sophia and laura 16:25:09 2/16/99 (2)Re: out panel - sophia 15:38:16 2/26/99 (0)
Re: out panel - Justin 23:48:05 2/25/99 (0)
The need to come out - Dara 18:53:46 2/24/99 (3)
Re:
The need to come out - Jose N 01:26:13 3/18/99 (0)
Re:
The need to come out - Joe 23:14:44 3/17/99 (0)
Re:
The need to come out - Justin 00:30:06 2/26/99 (2)
Re:
Re: The need to come out - Jessica 14:08:26 3/09/99 (1)
Re: Re: Re: The need to come out - Kristin 18:24:21
3/09/99 (0)
Summary and Analysis of Coming Out Issues
The Need to Come Out
As I browse through the discussions which are posted on the class website, I come across an issue which is quite intriguing. The title reads, "The need to come out " This automatically grabs my attention as l begin to think about the homosexual of our culture and his/her need to "come out" in our heterosexual-dominated society. The primary focus and the main question which was originally addressed on the discussion board (by D. Reynoso) asks, "Why don't heterosexuals also have to come out, like homosexuals do~if, in fact we are all equal?" In the following discussion I will address this question as it was raised as part of our class discussion and posted on the message board and also highlight some of the outstanding points which were made by students who have contributed to this topic of "coming out."After reading all of the "coming out" contributions made on the discussion board in depth, I recognize an issue that I have never really given much thought about prior to this discussion. lt is a fairly simple issue: Why should gays have to "come out" to others when it is supposed to be widely accepted and "okay" to be gay, just as it is "normal" to be heterosexual? Why must queers justify and explain their lifestyles when they are supposed to be regarded as equal to others who are not queer? As mentioned on the board, if a homosexual should have to go through a coming out process and face all of the many negative stereotypes that go along with it, then heterosexuals should also have to "come out" to the society as well. lt has been broken down to a simple black and white issue: Either everyone comes out, or no one at all does.
When something is so naturalized and "normal" within our society, like
heterosexuality, it is very seldomly addressed. If homosexuality is a topic
that should also be naturalized and accepted, we should learn not to question
it. Once homosexuality is no
longer questioned and deemed as "deviant" and "sinful," or no longer
seen as an opposition to heterosexuality, equality and justice will prevail.
If we can possibly normalize homosexuality by not requiring the queer individual
to explain his/her sexuality by "coming out," we will all be viewed on
the same scale, a scale that doesn't discriminate or downgrade someone
based on their sexuality. lf it is not a requirement for heterosexuals
to "come out" and it is not a requirement for other minority groups to
justify their lifestyles, why should the homosexual have to make excuses
or explain? If is it not natural for an African-American to say "okay,
look...I'm a 27 year old black guy," or for a Christian person to say,
"Hey, I'm Christian, just so you know," it is not natural or comfortable
for a queer individual to have to come out about his/her gay life.
If we eliminate the need for queers to come out, we will also be eliminating
the need for others (who are close to the queer individual) to justify
their lifestyles as well. We will be normalizing homosexuality in no different
form or order than heterosexuality. lt will not be seen as such a dramatic
and controversial issue if we simply stop questioning the homosexual life
and regard it as equal and natural. It is time to change our stereotypical
beliefs and views and begin to open new doors. By not questioning homosexuality
and promoting a "no need to come out" atmosphere within our country, we
can overcome these serious issues of inequality and injustice.
Posted by sophia and laura on February 16, 1999 at 16:25:09:
We're answering the questions posed in the main page regarding the out
panel.
So let's talk.
1. Similarities/Differences in coming out experiences
Okay.. now that we've all studied long and hard for that midterm and
we all know all the stages of Troiden's identity stages.. but for those
of us that didn't let's review:
(1) sensitization
(2) identity confusion
(3) identity assumption
this is the actual coming out experience:
1. self identifying
2. coming out to other homosexuals
3. coming out to heterosexual friends and family
4. coming out to the world in general
(4) commitment
okay.. so for the coming our panel that we had in class.. these experiences
were very similar to the stages in Troiden's identity stages...
there was some variations.. some people have yet to come out to family
members but have already come out to the population as a whole... everybody
had to deal with the potential backlash and the loss of support from family
and friends..
yet there were differences.. some had more positive experiences while
others had to face more negative backlash from their parents. some felt
more frightened to come out to their family if their family was conservative
and more strictly religious.. but were suprised that their parents were
in the end very supportive.
it was also interesting to notice that most people came out to their
mothers before their fathers... this may be to the gender stereotypes of
mothers being more nuturing.. and loving their children no matter what.
anyhow.
2. most of the accounts of the coming out and identity realization were
indicative of a social constructionist view. we don't seem to recall that
anybody thought that they were "born" homosexual... correct us if we're
wrong.. (it was a long time ago.. and this homework was way past due! oops!)
so.. let's be honest.. we think that the panel demonstrated the social
constuctionist view.. but we're really unsure of how and why.. so if anybody
could please help us.. that would be great! :)
3. people come out because they want to be free to share their feelings and emotions toward people just like everybody else. somebody mentioned something about coming out as a political act in order to make the queer community more visible. people felt that coming out finally helped them to be themselves.. especially after coming out their parents.. they didn't feel like they were hiding anything or were putting up a false front for their parents.
4. it gave a variety of different experiences... and each individual goes through a unique experience that is dependent upon their individual situations. althought there exists a variety of coming out experiences.. there are underlying similarities.. such as their fears of abandonment from support networks.. but all felt a sense of relief after coming out! some were at the stage where their identity was heavily based on their sexuality while others felt that their sexuality was merely a part of their identity, and it wasn't as heavily weighed.
okay.. that's it.. discuss!
Follow Ups:
Re: out panel sophia
15:38:16 2/26/99 (0)
Re: out panel Justin
23:48:05 2/25/99 (0)
Posted by sophia on February 26, 1999 at 15:38:16:
In Reply to: out panel posted by sophia and laura on February 16, 1999 at 16:25:09:
for #2.. when i said that most people were social constructionists..
i made a mistake.. sorry.. i guess i just misunderstood the differences
between social constructionists and essentialists... sorry.
Posted by Justin on February 25, 1999 at 23:48:05:
In Reply to: out panel posted by sophia and laura on February 16, 1999 at 16:25:09:
Wow, I sure am glad that people were thinking about what we did up there. I was really very scary and I was nervous. Although I cannot imagine a safer class to come out in, sitting up there and telling everybody about my experience was.....not the easiest thing I have ever done.
With regard to your comments:
1. Um, hmmm. The actual coming out experience can encompass a number
of different things only some of which were included in Troiden and some
in your summary. I think that the following occurs:
1. Sense of difference; 2. Knowledge of difference; 3.Tentative labeling
and discovering of difference; 4. Self acceptance of difference; 5. Sharing
that difference in a safe environment; 6. Sharing that difference in a
hostile environment; 7. Normalization of that difference.
This does sound kind of awkward, but let me explain. Many queer youth
often felt that they were different from time of first memories but did
not attribute it to gender difference (1). Then, there is a process of
identifying it as being in the realm of sexuality but not yet queer (2).
Then there is experimenting with the internal fit of the queer identity
(3). Then there is acceptance one does indeed have a queer identity (4).
Then, that identity is shared with safe friends, regardless of gender and
maybe even some safe family members like siblings (probably female)
and mother (5). Then, there is sharing that identity where there is a good
chance of negative consequences like violence or loss of job (6). Finally,
one assumes a life where being queer is like being male or female or colored
or white, simply one identity of many that makes up the whole (7).
Various distinctions like when one tells friends as opposed to family or other queers as opposed to other straights seems sterile. We live in a dynamic urban world and as a result, we may have gay friends or relatives or have knowledge of a gay community vicariously through TV and the Internet but no actual people to come out to. Importantly, the problem of religion varies among individuals, it can be decisive for some and practically non-existent for others. There are also general forces such as internal desire to progress or retard development of identity. The physical act can occur at any stage or none at all and may have a large role or a small one. Also, one's other goals, like being in the military may be in conflict with progressing through all of the stages. I think that it is most useful to see 1-7 as a spectrum from "vague sense of difference" to "balanced incorporation." Some go from one end all the way to the other, some travel fast and some slow, some make stead progress and some yo-yo, some begin at different points than others and some stay longer at some than at others.
2. I beg to differ with you on this account. I do not feel that mine nor any one else's on the panel was a social constructionist view. I am 99% sure that if you asked each one of us, we would say that we were born non-heterosexual. We may have different levels of queer identity, but, we all believe that society could not make us straight or gay. You said that you simply suspected that we held constructionist views and then you were unsure how to elaborate, and since I did not think that we presented such a view I cannot help detail that possibility, but perhaps someone else can?
3. I completely agree with this point. Please see my comment regarding Linda for more reasons why queers feel the need to come out. Although I think that your word choice was not strong enough. People do not "want" to come out, most feel that they "have" to, that there is no choice in the matter if they want to live as a member of society and not lose their mind. Believe me, coming out is harder than getting an "A" in every single one of your classes at UCLA over four years in classes that you were prohibited from selecting yourself.
4. This is right on the money and you put it very well, I thought.
Well, there's my two cents worth. I would really like to know what people thought of the panel. I mean, we went up there and did it, did it do anything for you? For your understanding of the class? For your understanding of queers?
–Justin
Posted by Dara on February 24, 1999 at 18:53:46:
Does anyone else find it disturbing that there is a process known as
"coming out" that only homosexuals take part in? Why don't
heterosexuals have to "come out"? It is the way society is structured
to assume that heterosexuality is normal and therefore assumed of everyone.
Those who are not heterosexual must announce their sexuality so that a
label can be assigned such as "deviant" or "sinful." Forgive me, I forgot
his name, but the 1st guy to speak on the out panel made a good point when
he said, "I'm tired of coming out." You should be.
My idea: if one group should have to come out, all groups should have to also; or if one group doesn't have to come out, no group should have to. When discussing this issue with my older sister, she pointed out the Quinceneras (forgive my spelling) were in a way a Mexican girl's heterosexual coming out bash into womanhood, that in essence, says she is ready to marry. My response, it's her parents' party. I seriously wonder how many Chicana lesbian women have had Quincenieras thrown for them on the their fifteenth birthdays. Can we erase the stereotypes and the prejudice of society? We can try. I used to make all kinds of assumptions about people based on the way they looked, dressed, talked, etc., I was trained to do that, we all are. But in the past couple of years I have grown very intollerant of stereotypes and stigma's that I have been trying to stop making any kind of assumption about somebody that I don't know. It wasn't as hard as I thought it would be, but I do occasionally find myself making a generalization. My point, it's not impossible to change the way you think, even when certain ideas have been drilled into your head for 20 years.
Follow Ups:
Re: The need to come out
Justin 00:30:06 2/26/99 (2)
Re:
Re: The need to come out Jessica 14:08:26 3/09/99 (1)
Re:
Re: Re: The need to come out - Kristin 18:24:21 3/09/99 (0)
Posted by Justin on February 26, 1999 at 00:30:06:
In Reply to: The need to come out posted by Dara on February 24, 1999 at 18:53:46:
Yes, I am very tired of coming out. You know, you go through all of this stuff with yourself, your friends, your family, your work and the general public, your church/temple (if you have one) and after all of that, a process that may take years, you still have to come out to everyone who becomes a part of your life pretty much on any level deeper than a fast-food clerk. In unsafe environments like work or formal functions, you are always ready for the time that the conversation will turn to something that puts you in a put up or shut up position and you need to wrestle with your conscience and consciousness to come up with the best way to go about your course of action and then justify it. At events, you always have to wonder which people have been told you are gay so that you understand exactly what they mean when the conversation touches on almost anything from politics to religion to culture. Sometimes, you hope they told no one and you can successfully navigate this evening without going through it being seen as the "gay one" and representing the gay world. Being the one that people's stereotypes are measured up against and hope that you are doing something that puts queers in a positive light. Other times you hope that they everybody knows and has knows for a while in advance so that the number of "when did you know you were gay?" questions can be minimized. You get the point.
Whether you are in or out, you are always queer and cannot escape it whether you want to or not. I am very proud to be gay and would not change if I could, only sometimes, I would like it if everyone would forget for a day or a week or a month or just one event and that magically people would not sexualize conversation so that I could have a break, a breather, just some down time.
No, its not right that only gays have to come out, but actually its not only gays that have to, its everybody who is close to one. My mother is now single and she cannot date a man and feel good about it if his is not pro-gay. My two sisters are at Catholic school and the youngest one just lost all of her friends when the topic of gays came up and she defended them till she was crying and had to go home. Her phone used to ring off the hook all night and now it is silent. Her birthday trip to Magic Mountain is coming up and her guest list consists of one–her step sister. I will be driving because my mom does not do well on long car rides. My sister will be 13.
When gays come out, and their world goes from black and white to color. When they feel they are finally human and life can begin, those closest to them often see it as a death. The greatest and most difficult thing for a queer individual is seen as the end for those whom they hold dear. Once all of that pain is shed and everybody heals, the family gets the pleasure of telling those who are and become close to them about their queer member or at least their views on the subject. In extreme circumstances, divorces occur and the coming out not only kills the future of the child that might have been, but also the future of his/her family as it was on track to become.
No, it is not fair that only gays should have to come out. But, sexuality is with us and we do it every day. The women's movement has been trying for decades to end learned sex biases and role programing in children and they have made lots of successes. I do not know if the queer community can do the same. We have the same enemies as the feminists only our numbers are about 1/10th as large.
As far as everybody coming out though, I think that it has been done in other cultures like ancient Native American and Filipino cultures where, for the man at least, after his right of passage, he chooses whether to become a man or a third sex or a woman. Thus, although most chose to be a "straight" man, each boy makes the same choice at the same time. I suspect that gays today feel like jews did 100 years ago (and still do in a few places). With the pervasiveness of Christianity, for Jews to remain closeted was trying and the legitimacy of Jews was certainly contested in society.
I am somewhat angry and bitter that we have to be contesting this now. I mean, why can't everybody just get on with their own lives and let queers have equal status and then move on? Well, since we are contesting, at least we have a chance.......but would the ultimate solution be for everybody to have to come out or for nobody to have to?
–Justin
Follow Ups:
Re: Re: The need to come
out - Jessica 14:08:26 3/09/99 (1)
Re:
Re: Re: The need to come out - Kristin 18:24:21 3/09/99 (0)
Posted by Jessica on March 09, 1999 at 14:08:26:
In Reply to: Re: The need to come out posted by Justin on February 26, 1999 at 00:30:06:
In response to Justin's question on is the solution for everybody to
come out or for noone to come out, I would have to say that
the ultimate goal is for noone to come out. The reason I say this is
because if something is so normal and naturalized, like
hetereosexuality, rarely is it even addressed. When homosexuality reaches
the point of not even being questioned or seen as in
opposition to heterosexuality, I believe that the battle for equality
will have been won.
Follow Ups:
Re: Re: Re: The need to
come out - Kristin 18:24:21 3/09/99 (0)
Posted by Kristin on March 09, 1999 at 18:24:21:
In Reply to: Re: Re: The need to come out posted by Jessica on March 09, 1999 at 14:08:26:
I agree with Jessica. In regards to a homosexuals "coming out," I truly
don't think that it is necessary! Why should a gay person
have to constantly justify her/himself in regards to her/his own sexual
preferance, while no other heterosexual has to justify
his/her preferences? I don't understand. It almost seems ironic that
gays are supposed to accepted and tolerated as just another
ordinary part of society, yet...people always want them to have to
justify their lifestyles and make excuses for themselves. It
sucks. If we are all really equal, we should all have the same expectations
places upon us and we should all be treated with the
same amount of fairness and equality.
Posted by Joe on March 17, 1999 at 23:14:44:
In Reply to: The need to come out posted by Dara on February 24, 1999 at 18:53:46:
The term "Coming-out" has been used toward queer people not only accepting to themselves, but telling others of their identity-sexual identity. Others have questioned why such a term cannot be applied to homosexuality. LIke what many have said, heterosexuality has been deemed as the standard for sexual identity. This is evident in human interactions. In one's first reaction to the opposite sex, he or she usually assume that the other person is heterosexual. If not, then the person is something else, being queer.
Yes, only queers have this need to come-out and not heterosexuals, the majority of this country. One does not see telling others that they are heterosexual because one is perceived as heterosexual unless otherwise proven wrong. This is unfortunate in today's society because youngsters unconsciously learn to view heterosexuality as the norm. That being said, possessing another identity entails a sense of wierdness. I went on a gay chat recently and found many questioning their identity because they harbor emotions and attractions that are in their eyes due to their upbringing not normal. Many guys ranging from 19 to 30 went on to find someone who was like them. in other words, they did not want to be alone and be seen as not normal.
Posted by Jose on March 18, 1999 at 01:26:13:
In Reply to: The need to come out posted by Dara on February 24, 1999 at 18:53:46:
coming out is a tiring process...ok. but i think it is a good step for
homosexuals to feel comfortable with who they are. heterosexuals
are taught how to be hetero from birth on. but for gays and lesbians,
there isn't any social structure to teach us how to approach
dating or relationships. coming out is essential to those that are
tired of pretending to be heterosexual. to have the courage to stand up
and say "i'm homosexual" is to have the courage to tell society you're
not afraid to go against the grain. an out person is a strong one
that can face his neighbor and let him pass judgent. congrats to those
that have come out!